This is Writing?

Nice article!. Thanks for posting this article. Fr...

2012-01-05T18:05:51.118+13:00

Nice article!. Thanks for posting this article. From this article I came to know that a line break in poetry gives, It's value, the rhythm but, sometimes it changes the meaning of the sentence. The cause may be due to an ebook publishing problem. This could be avoided so that the meaning of the poem or prose never changes.

Yeah, I'm not sure what we can do either. I...

2011-12-19T11:53:36.161+13:00

Yeah, I'm not sure what we can do either. I'm kind of surprised there isn't more talk out there on this. Seems kind of fundamental.

Really interesting post, Bill. I find the idea tha...

2011-12-19T11:16:43.685+13:00

Really interesting post, Bill. I find the idea that poetry = Is primarily about rhythm and words to create meaning, whereas prose = Is primarily about words and sentences to create meaning, something I want to think about a lot. It's a conversation I have with my supervisors in terms of longer, narrative poems. I think they're poems because I am focusing on words and sound, but because they have a narrative they're seen as short stories by some.

As for ebooks, if there were more poetry ebooks out there I would buy an ebook reader. PDF isn't the same as a format that can shape and change for each different device. Maybe we should start a movement ... HTML elements for poetry ... or a petition that we could send to ... um. Not sure. Anyway, interesting post.

Hi Richard, Thanks for adding a comment on this. ...

2011-12-12T11:12:37.502+13:00

Hi Richard,

Thanks for adding a comment on this.

I didn't mean to single out Magic Scroll, it seems like a great product.

I'm of the opinion that the rendering of a poem shouldn't come down to optimization, but that the ePub (HTML) format should specify what the text is (poetry or prose), so that it can be handled differently.

And as I tried to explain in the post, I don't think you can lump poetry together with technical manuals and comics etc. Those two are subsets (or a hybrid in the case of comics) of prose writing, whereas poetry isn't. It has different rules for the display and reading of text, it is related but different from prose.

Like say, if the internet had been invented 2000 years ago HTML wouldn't have 'paragraph' and 'break' tags, but would have 'stanza' and 'strophe' tags. It's just because prose is the dominant force at the moment that poetry seems to have been forgotten about.

So in short I think you are doing the right thing by rendering text the way you do in Magic Scroll and trying to compromise that to incorporate poetry would be wrong I think. What we need are HTML elements for poetic text.

Hopefully that happens before poetry disappears.

Hi Bill, I created MagicScroll. In the physical ...

2011-12-09T20:31:49.310+13:00

Hi Bill,

I created MagicScroll.

In the physical world a book is going to be put together by a human who absolutely knows the difference between narrative and poetry.

The problem is that the ePUB format does little to distinguish between the two forms of writing or between say a graphic novel and a dictionary.

Optimizing for one format will absolutely affect the experience of another. If MagicScroll honoured line breaks it would be forced to limit the size of the font which would degrade the experience for people with poor eyesight or on a mobile device.

In MagicScroll's case I always optimize for narrative which means that poetry, technical manuals, magazines etc don't always display very well.

To ensure that line breaks are respected, you might want to publish in a format that is not reflowable (like PDF). You can also email a copy of the book to support@magicscroll.net and I'll see if I can do anything to make it display a little better.

Kind Regards
Richard Wallis

I'll try it! Keep posting them :-)

2011-12-09T12:40:27.072+13:00

I'll try it! Keep posting them :-)

Good results for me from this one.

2011-12-09T11:48:49.186+13:00

Good results for me from this one.

Oh wow. That sounds amazing. Shame it is no longer...

2011-11-24T08:32:53.525+13:00

Oh wow. That sounds amazing. Shame it is no longer there.

Bill, I lived in that house in the 70's for 2 ...

2011-11-23T17:26:21.028+13:00

Bill, I lived in that house in the 70's for 2 years. It's called Agee House after the man who built it. All solid 2" thick tongue and groove heart redwood crafted by imported Japanese craftsmen. The house had a very unusual layout, but was perfectly suited to the jungle. It is now gone completely and 2' diameter trees grow where it once stood. I cherish it as one of my favorite memories of my time in Hawaii.

Sounds plausible. It's certainly a slightly cr...

2011-09-12T09:29:06.534+12:00

Sounds plausible. It's certainly a slightly creepy horse. But then I find that image so beautiful, so quiet, more like a guardian or a wandering homeless horse than something sinister. Often those really successful images seem to be a combination of the light and the dark I think. The beautiful and the sad.

Hello Bill About Jenny Bornholdt's poem Winte...

2011-09-11T22:14:55.428+12:00

Hello Bill

About Jenny Bornholdt's poem Winter - is the quiet horse in your opinion a reference to a dark horse - despite being white - which comes unexpectedly
'to shadow us
down the road'
?

Yeah, they kind of all flow together nicely, you d...

2010-08-31T12:43:52.812+12:00

Yeah, they kind of all flow together nicely, you don't get too much jarring. Lack of titles helps a bit there I think.

You should definitely check it out if you haven't already. Maybe it's a variant of the long poem? Not really though. What is a long poem?

Nice review. It is interesting that the book inclu...

2010-08-31T07:53:45.077+12:00

Nice review. It is interesting that the book includes so many types of poems (letters, prose etc.).

This review is like a poetry appetizer: 'fille...

2010-07-31T21:17:00.632+12:00

This review is like a poetry appetizer: 'filled with a variety of tasty tidbits'.

you're a legend maestro - what a fab write-up ...

2010-07-27T13:03:29.960+12:00

you're a legend maestro - what a fab write-up about a truly absorbing and long-lasting collection...if you can write this well about other writing we can only wait with baited breath for some of your writings that not about other writings oh mystery man - oh - maybe you been doing that - ok - i'm now a follower...

It was a great launch. I like your description of ...

2010-07-15T10:06:54.852+12:00

It was a great launch. I like your description of James Brown's work as "little balls of poetry." I've been thinking about constraints recently as I don't really use them but they do produce some really interesting work.

Hehehe - like :)

2010-05-03T15:34:14.855+12:00

Hehehe - like :)

Yes! That is true of all good poetry I think. I di...

2010-01-23T09:17:28.656+13:00

Yes! That is true of all good poetry I think. I did mention that in my post, I guess I muddied that post up a bit with the old avant gardists vs. tradiotionalists thing. Whoops!

Rhythm is definitely an important part of a good poem (the most important?) and ia often overlooked, but I think a trulu breat poem has to tick some other boxes too.

I did enjoy Leigh's work a lot and provided some serious contemplation for me. So on that level it was incredibly successful. Thanks for your comment.

I told Leigh that I don't understand his writi...

2010-01-23T05:12:00.661+13:00

I told Leigh that I don't understand his writing...

And he asked me to just listen to the rhythm :-)

Hi Mark, Thanks for your comment. I'm sure it...

2009-11-04T08:55:32.480+13:00

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your comment. I'm sure it would be stunning read aloud. I think we might be talking about matters of personal preference here, I know I certainly am. I definitely admire MacLow's pioneering attitude and breaking down of the the traditional 'authorship' and his work with chance operation, we probably wouldn't have such a rich heritage of post-modern peotry without him. But at the same time I have reservations about how much of it I want to read, and I mean on the page here as opposed to performed which are, for me, two completely different modes.

In short I prefer poetry that packs an entire world into each line. I like poetry that works extremely hard and works me extremely hard and I'm not sure subtly nuanced repetition is enough to keep me interested or want to go back and read those sections again. I guess I found so much beauty and complexity in that first section which was then slowly expanded on in the later sections and I wanted more than that slow expansion. I just wanted more, more in the way that the first section definitely delivered. I guess I'm fairly conservative in my love of dense lyric poetry. And maybe if MacLow had just left it at the first section and not introduced chance operation then it would have been just another lyric poem (J.A.L.P?), which is fair enough and a good reason to do something different. But knowing that still doesn't change how I read it or enjoy it.

MacLow is certainly an artist, and that is what I like about his work, it is so uncompromising, so driven by experimentation.

His 'Instructions for Dancers' (if I remember the title correctly) is another matter altogether. I absolutely adore those, they somehow marry the experiment, the form, the subject(s) and the language beautifully. Brilliant!

Jackson MacLow's "phone" is breathta...

2009-11-03T20:07:46.137+13:00

Jackson MacLow's "phone" is breathtaking -- not principally because of the first page, or "theme," but rather because of the exquisite, partly chance-determined transformations to which this opening is subjected. Take another look at the last three pages, or variations, of the poem. These render the opening sentiment even more poignant. The chance operations have enabled the poet to discover/unveil new nuances and ramifications.

I once saw Mr. MacLow read this poem. Simple, unpretentious, altogether compelling.

Titles are tricky, eh? 'The wolf market' r...

2009-10-31T21:27:32.437+13:00

Titles are tricky, eh? 'The wolf market' really stands out for me.

Palantino's a lovely font; Miriam Bar sets all...

2009-10-31T21:26:19.934+13:00

Palantino's a lovely font; Miriam Bar sets all of her poetry zine in Palantino. Good choice; a comforting, classy font.

Hi, right back at you. I read an interesting thin...

2009-09-30T08:41:18.151+13:00

Hi, right back at you.

I read an interesting thing about writing as a 'vocation' that is more akin to the religious sense of that word than the commercial sense, which I like. Maybe writing will be easier to explain in those terms to people, but then again, I think I would get strange looks if I told people I wanted to become a priest. Haha!

Just waving to say Hi. Thanks for this, it confirm...

2009-09-29T12:43:01.283+13:00

Just waving to say Hi.
Thanks for this, it confirms again the way to go about writing. When I've been able to find out how writers manage to write, and be successful, they all say Do this. Show up every day. I've just got someone cleaning my house and she is horrified (politely) at what she is finding, and I say, It is because I must write. I can't expect other people to understand.